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	Comments on: Undercover Evangelical	</title>
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	<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/</link>
	<description>Best-Selling Christian Author</description>
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		<title>
		By: Waseem Khan		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-5/#comment-11964</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Waseem Khan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Sep 2017 17:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-11964</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for posting the review ... and again thank you for suggesting the book because i am going for it]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting the review &#8230; and again thank you for suggesting the book because i am going for it</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter Crookes		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-5/#comment-579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Crookes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 00:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Few people, especially in war time, have a problem with spies and &quot;plants&quot; fraternizing with the opposition under cover of friendship.  We accept this as a reality of life - that sometimes subterfuge and deception has to be employed in order to defeat a much greater evil.  To extrapolate this ploy to cases where the impersonator is doing it &quot;just to see what happens&quot; or (worse) merely to advance his or her literary career is certainly more dubious.  The one famous incident when someone outwardly conformed to Christian ritual and practice just to keep the domestic peace (CS Lewis as an adolescent) was later recalled by him with disgust, and that did not directly involve deceiving anyone close to him.  But then, how many of us turn to God from pure motives?  Is selfish comfort or the possiblity of enhanced prosperity, escape from potential punishment, or filling of a psychological void in life any more worthy?  A cynic could claim that people only turn to God out of narcissistic immaturity. Even if this were true, it only shows that God is not picky about who turns to Him.  He can use any motive, if only the person will open himself to Him.  Perhaps Gina Welch really came close to being open to God, but when faced with a real choice she shut the door, and doing that knowingly is what precipated the crisis of conscience that forced her to leave.  Just as God uses those who preach Christ out of envy or out of strife, He can presumably use the most unworthy motives in those who come into His orbit.  The whole story has interesting implications for the role of personal choice in coming to Christ.  Did she articulately decide that she just couldn&#039;t swallow the whole package, or was she prevented by the ineluctable status of not being elected?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Few people, especially in war time, have a problem with spies and &#8220;plants&#8221; fraternizing with the opposition under cover of friendship.  We accept this as a reality of life &#8211; that sometimes subterfuge and deception has to be employed in order to defeat a much greater evil.  To extrapolate this ploy to cases where the impersonator is doing it &#8220;just to see what happens&#8221; or (worse) merely to advance his or her literary career is certainly more dubious.  The one famous incident when someone outwardly conformed to Christian ritual and practice just to keep the domestic peace (CS Lewis as an adolescent) was later recalled by him with disgust, and that did not directly involve deceiving anyone close to him.  But then, how many of us turn to God from pure motives?  Is selfish comfort or the possiblity of enhanced prosperity, escape from potential punishment, or filling of a psychological void in life any more worthy?  A cynic could claim that people only turn to God out of narcissistic immaturity. Even if this were true, it only shows that God is not picky about who turns to Him.  He can use any motive, if only the person will open himself to Him.  Perhaps Gina Welch really came close to being open to God, but when faced with a real choice she shut the door, and doing that knowingly is what precipated the crisis of conscience that forced her to leave.  Just as God uses those who preach Christ out of envy or out of strife, He can presumably use the most unworthy motives in those who come into His orbit.  The whole story has interesting implications for the role of personal choice in coming to Christ.  Did she articulately decide that she just couldn&#8217;t swallow the whole package, or was she prevented by the ineluctable status of not being elected?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cally Goddard		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-5/#comment-578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cally Goddard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lying, cheating and stealing: something foreign to me.  However, sometimes my own sins haunt.  I was thinking about God between the lines in His Word.  You see I have mental illness and God has said no to the healing.  I watched 20/20 about Kaycee Degur last night....how can we not execute men who rapes like that?  I would be like the mother, how can I forgive?  God protected her in his lie and others.  I was simply upset for laughing with friends over finding the Luthern&#039;s church old sexton&#039;s paperwork and his love letter to his lover.  Granted it was the sin of that church 4 generations ago.  But, why would I laugh over sins past.  I don&#039;t think God laughs at our sins.  Many of my friends who want and/or wanted to commit suicide I worry about....but, I have no way to find them.  I must trust God for that kind of murder, if they are no longer here on earth.  I attempt to tell my friends of certain sins are wrong, but they don&#039;t believe me and/or shrug their shoulders....&quot;it was only once&quot;....we must continue to pray!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lying, cheating and stealing: something foreign to me.  However, sometimes my own sins haunt.  I was thinking about God between the lines in His Word.  You see I have mental illness and God has said no to the healing.  I watched 20/20 about Kaycee Degur last night&#8230;.how can we not execute men who rapes like that?  I would be like the mother, how can I forgive?  God protected her in his lie and others.  I was simply upset for laughing with friends over finding the Luthern&#8217;s church old sexton&#8217;s paperwork and his love letter to his lover.  Granted it was the sin of that church 4 generations ago.  But, why would I laugh over sins past.  I don&#8217;t think God laughs at our sins.  Many of my friends who want and/or wanted to commit suicide I worry about&#8230;.but, I have no way to find them.  I must trust God for that kind of murder, if they are no longer here on earth.  I attempt to tell my friends of certain sins are wrong, but they don&#8217;t believe me and/or shrug their shoulders&#8230;.&#8221;it was only once&#8221;&#8230;.we must continue to pray!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diann		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-5/#comment-577</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-577</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for posting this review of In the Land of Believers.  I read the book at your recommendation - I have an &#039;If Philip Yancey recommends it, it&#039;s got to be good&#039; complex - and I wish all those who mingle politics and the Gospel would read Gina&#039;s book...for look at the one time she felt like (her words) &quot;leaping the pew&quot;: it was when a singer performs a &quot;silly song, lyrically&quot; (again her words) that touched her heart.  The foolishness of the Gospel message, the simplicity of it, silly though it seemed - rocked her undercover world and touched her so deeply that she was &quot;transported&quot;.  She calls the singer a Weapon of Mass Salvation.  The Gospel, unpoliticized and yet carrying the life changing message of Jesus&#039; love - got through to her for a moment.

Thank you for recommending this book.  It refocused me on what is truly important - my Savior&#039;s good news.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting this review of In the Land of Believers.  I read the book at your recommendation &#8211; I have an &#8216;If Philip Yancey recommends it, it&#8217;s got to be good&#8217; complex &#8211; and I wish all those who mingle politics and the Gospel would read Gina&#8217;s book&#8230;for look at the one time she felt like (her words) &#8220;leaping the pew&#8221;: it was when a singer performs a &#8220;silly song, lyrically&#8221; (again her words) that touched her heart.  The foolishness of the Gospel message, the simplicity of it, silly though it seemed &#8211; rocked her undercover world and touched her so deeply that she was &#8220;transported&#8221;.  She calls the singer a Weapon of Mass Salvation.  The Gospel, unpoliticized and yet carrying the life changing message of Jesus&#8217; love &#8211; got through to her for a moment.</p>
<p>Thank you for recommending this book.  It refocused me on what is truly important &#8211; my Savior&#8217;s good news.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William L. Anderson		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-5/#comment-576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William L. Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jul 2012 16:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a very interesting and informative post. I think that one thing we have to understand is that American society today is extremely politicized, and that political interpretations of Americanized Christianity often overpower any message of grace. One only has to see the popularity of someone like Bill Maher, who describes evangelicals in obscene ways, to understand the level of hatred that now exists among Americans.

No doubt, Ms. Welch came into her &quot;investigation&quot; as a person of the Cultural Left and the Democratic Party, and then goes right into the heart of the Religious Right, and for most people that is where things stop. What I do find interesting and, frankly, surprised is the fact that she really was able to experience at least some of the grace that should be found among believers, be they evangelicals or fundamentalists. We evangelicals often do not exhibit much grace to the outside world, and the fact that evangelicals often are associated with the Republican Party makes us even less appealing to much of American society today.

I grew up in the evangelical subculture (my father taught at Covenant College for many years, and I even remember attending a writing seminar by Phil Yancey when he was there), and when I was younger, the political divides were not as great. Many of our evangelical friends were Democrats (1950s and 60s and early 70s) and the various political movements of the evangelicals had not yet occurred, i.e. the foundation of Moral Majority.

From what I can tell, the move by the Democrats to try to codify much of the Sexual Revolution, along with the growing divides over abortion pretty much put the evangelicals in the Republican camp. As much as I hate this political development, I will say that Democrats now really want nothing to do with evangelicals and are quite happy to have them out of the party.

As a long-time observer of the evangelical scene, I believe that the foray into politics has been a disaster. While I can understand why Christians have become obsessed with the political scene, nonetheless we have to remember that in the words of economist Robert Higgs, politics ultimately is &quot;the systematic organization of hatreds.&quot;

http://blog.independent.org/2012/05/05/the-systematic-organization-of-hatreds/

I think it is important to remember that what Ms. Welch found unexpectedly attractive was the grace that believers demonstrated. That grace cannot be found in politics, as Higgs writes:

&quot;Even a devout Christian has no small difficulty in following Christ’s admonition to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” But when we live and act in the private realm, we can make our best attempt to love others or at least to tolerate them in peace, and we have many options for avoiding or running away from hateful people and situations; occasionally we may even be able to lead someone, or ourselves, to substitute love, or at least understanding, for hatred.

&quot;In politics and government, however, the institutional makeup fosters hatred at every turn. Parties recruit followers by exploiting hatreds. Bureaucracies bulk up their power and budgets by artfully weaving hatreds into their mission statements and day-to-day procedures. Regulators take advantage of artificially heightened hatreds. Group identity is emphasized at every turn, and such tribal distinctions are tailor-made for the maintenance and increase of hatred among individual persons who might otherwise disregard the kinds of groupings that the politicians and their supporters emphasize ceaselessly.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very interesting and informative post. I think that one thing we have to understand is that American society today is extremely politicized, and that political interpretations of Americanized Christianity often overpower any message of grace. One only has to see the popularity of someone like Bill Maher, who describes evangelicals in obscene ways, to understand the level of hatred that now exists among Americans.</p>
<p>No doubt, Ms. Welch came into her &#8220;investigation&#8221; as a person of the Cultural Left and the Democratic Party, and then goes right into the heart of the Religious Right, and for most people that is where things stop. What I do find interesting and, frankly, surprised is the fact that she really was able to experience at least some of the grace that should be found among believers, be they evangelicals or fundamentalists. We evangelicals often do not exhibit much grace to the outside world, and the fact that evangelicals often are associated with the Republican Party makes us even less appealing to much of American society today.</p>
<p>I grew up in the evangelical subculture (my father taught at Covenant College for many years, and I even remember attending a writing seminar by Phil Yancey when he was there), and when I was younger, the political divides were not as great. Many of our evangelical friends were Democrats (1950s and 60s and early 70s) and the various political movements of the evangelicals had not yet occurred, i.e. the foundation of Moral Majority.</p>
<p>From what I can tell, the move by the Democrats to try to codify much of the Sexual Revolution, along with the growing divides over abortion pretty much put the evangelicals in the Republican camp. As much as I hate this political development, I will say that Democrats now really want nothing to do with evangelicals and are quite happy to have them out of the party.</p>
<p>As a long-time observer of the evangelical scene, I believe that the foray into politics has been a disaster. While I can understand why Christians have become obsessed with the political scene, nonetheless we have to remember that in the words of economist Robert Higgs, politics ultimately is &#8220;the systematic organization of hatreds.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.independent.org/2012/05/05/the-systematic-organization-of-hatreds/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://blog.independent.org/2012/05/05/the-systematic-organization-of-hatreds/</a></p>
<p>I think it is important to remember that what Ms. Welch found unexpectedly attractive was the grace that believers demonstrated. That grace cannot be found in politics, as Higgs writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;Even a devout Christian has no small difficulty in following Christ’s admonition to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” But when we live and act in the private realm, we can make our best attempt to love others or at least to tolerate them in peace, and we have many options for avoiding or running away from hateful people and situations; occasionally we may even be able to lead someone, or ourselves, to substitute love, or at least understanding, for hatred.</p>
<p>&#8220;In politics and government, however, the institutional makeup fosters hatred at every turn. Parties recruit followers by exploiting hatreds. Bureaucracies bulk up their power and budgets by artfully weaving hatreds into their mission statements and day-to-day procedures. Regulators take advantage of artificially heightened hatreds. Group identity is emphasized at every turn, and such tribal distinctions are tailor-made for the maintenance and increase of hatred among individual persons who might otherwise disregard the kinds of groupings that the politicians and their supporters emphasize ceaselessly.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Abraham Pulickal		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-4/#comment-575</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abraham Pulickal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jul 2012 06:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-575</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Philip,

Your writings have truly been a great blessing to me always, and now this wonderful briefing about Gina Welch is truly blessed, I pray that may the church always be as loving, caring and welcoming as our Lord Jesus is always.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Philip,</p>
<p>Your writings have truly been a great blessing to me always, and now this wonderful briefing about Gina Welch is truly blessed, I pray that may the church always be as loving, caring and welcoming as our Lord Jesus is always.</p>
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		<title>
		By: tom woltjer		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-4/#comment-574</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom woltjer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 13:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-574</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your writings have been a foundational resource in my life and for my faith.
I hope Gina reads them some day.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your writings have been a foundational resource in my life and for my faith.<br />
I hope Gina reads them some day.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cally Goddard		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-4/#comment-573</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cally Goddard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 02:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-573</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m curious to know what people think about prayer?  I&#039;ve read your book, &quot;The gift Nobody Wants&quot;  Excellent book BTY!  Has helped me on many occasions for various reasons.  Evangelizing by prayer only is a isolating event, however, the prayer of the righteous (which I think as christians we all want to obtain) is sometimes a catch 22.  I can pray for healing, NO God might say, I can pray for someones&#039; salvation now that is a fine line debate; God&#039;s jugement is always right, can you ever fall on the sword, &quot;if they obey God&#039;s Word from that will reap God&#039;s blessings according to God&#039;s ways (his Word), if they disobey God&#039;s Word from that will reap God&#039;s provision, but only according to his Ways? or I can pray for someones&#039; else&#039;s healing?  Listening?  Too  much to ponder....

Also, reading Vol. II in William Gurnall&#039;s book pg. 32 on the &#039;shield of faith&#039;, your friend Richard always comes to mind while i read this book....it is so good and it might answer a lot of his questions.

I have a new e-mail address, i hope you can delete the old one.  Thanks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious to know what people think about prayer?  I&#8217;ve read your book, &#8220;The gift Nobody Wants&#8221;  Excellent book BTY!  Has helped me on many occasions for various reasons.  Evangelizing by prayer only is a isolating event, however, the prayer of the righteous (which I think as christians we all want to obtain) is sometimes a catch 22.  I can pray for healing, NO God might say, I can pray for someones&#8217; salvation now that is a fine line debate; God&#8217;s jugement is always right, can you ever fall on the sword, &#8220;if they obey God&#8217;s Word from that will reap God&#8217;s blessings according to God&#8217;s ways (his Word), if they disobey God&#8217;s Word from that will reap God&#8217;s provision, but only according to his Ways? or I can pray for someones&#8217; else&#8217;s healing?  Listening?  Too  much to ponder&#8230;.</p>
<p>Also, reading Vol. II in William Gurnall&#8217;s book pg. 32 on the &#8216;shield of faith&#8217;, your friend Richard always comes to mind while i read this book&#8230;.it is so good and it might answer a lot of his questions.</p>
<p>I have a new e-mail address, i hope you can delete the old one.  Thanks.</p>
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		By: Greg Denholm		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-4/#comment-572</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Denholm]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 06:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-572</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this article, Philip. I really enjoyed it as always. I ‘visit’ other writers, but I always feel at home when reading your words.

On a completely unrelated matter, I remember you once said that you need to read 17 positive letters from fans to overcome the effects of one negative letter from a critic. I wonder if the ratio today is any different? I suspect it is.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Great question!  The negative letters still sting, but I get enough kind comments from people like you that they don&#039;t paralyze me as they used to.
Philip]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this article, Philip. I really enjoyed it as always. I ‘visit’ other writers, but I always feel at home when reading your words.</p>
<p>On a completely unrelated matter, I remember you once said that you need to read 17 positive letters from fans to overcome the effects of one negative letter from a critic. I wonder if the ratio today is any different? I suspect it is.</p>
<blockquote><p>Great question!  The negative letters still sting, but I get enough kind comments from people like you that they don&#8217;t paralyze me as they used to.<br />
Philip</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Ricky		</title>
		<link>https://philipyancey.com/undercover-evangelical/comment-page-4/#comment-571</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ricky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://philipyancey.com/?p=3317#comment-571</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Phillip. 
I&#039;m your big fan from Indonesia.

I hope you would make a plan to visit Indonesia (which is the biggest Islam country in the world. ) and hold maybe like two days seminar about writing (or maybe about how to live like Jesus in the country that most of the people are Islam)  
God bless you Phil!! :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Phillip.<br />
I&#8217;m your big fan from Indonesia.</p>
<p>I hope you would make a plan to visit Indonesia (which is the biggest Islam country in the world. ) and hold maybe like two days seminar about writing (or maybe about how to live like Jesus in the country that most of the people are Islam)<br />
God bless you Phil!! 🙂</p>
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